Recently a user who identified as a hardcore Christian (6000 year old Earth, literal Bible, evolution disbelief) posted two comments here. As all of the comments posted here have to be moderated, I debated myself for a few minutes before deciding to not let them pass.
Why I did this was rather complicated. If my blog were bigger and there were a bunch of people here that could engage in debates, I would have let it pass, regardless of content. In this case, I got one ROTFLMAO from the user (yes, “T” included) over the idea of “macro evolution” (which doesn’t exist). Also included was the notion that evolution was a “belief” (I don’t believe the user said such directly, but it was hinted at), and the thought that we should teach both sides because whenever you get one side, it’s propaganda.
Well, he’s sort of right.
Groups such as the Discovery Institute have made a crafty disinformation campaign called Teach The Controversy regarding evolution and intelligent design. Now, teaching “both sides” would be OK with me… if it weren’t for the fact that there aren’t two sides.
There is only one side in science, and that’s evolution. Intelligent design might stand a half-assed chance at being seriously considered if you could do the following:
- Prove the existence of a designer; AND
- Study the designer directly.
Failing this, the theory becomes moot because you must study every part of a supposed theory for it to be scientific. Creationism may be true, however unlikely I think it is (up there with Bigfoot and the tooth fairy), but that does not make it scientific because it can not be tested.
How do you prove a designer? By finding that designer. Does intelligent design tell you any of the following?:
- Why the designer created us
- How the designer created us
- What the designer used to create us
No. It just says that evolution doesn’t work, so we win.
The problem scientists have with this is that it’s not how science works. With evolution, we’re able to do all of the following:
- Prove the evolution of microbes, bacteria, et cetera.
- Prove the evolution of organisms of higher complexity, such as dinosaurs.
- Provide a medium for evolution to advance lifeforms.
How do all these work? How do we do this?
- In the lab, we’ve actually evolved species of simple organisms. If that argument doesn’t withstand creationist scrutiny, tuberculosis has evolved in certain strains to be resistant to certain antibiotics and other medicines, including former vaccines. Even then, the flu shot you get every year functions on the basis that influenza strains evolve every year. You’re not getting the same flu shot year by year because every year the strains of flu have evolved to trick your immune system in order to gain access to the vital parts of your body to make you sick. If it hadn’t evolved, you would only need one vaccine, ala smallpox.
- Genetics shows that all species of life on Earth are related. We all share similar DNA. Of course, you can’t see this unless you’re in the field of genetics, which some people actually deny exists. If DNA exists, we still have key clues in nature;
- Transitional fossils, which many posit to not exist, in fact do exist in high quantity. Archaeopteryx is a prime example of this. Incidentally, it’s often said to not be a transitional fossil even though it clearly exhibits traits of both dinosaurs and birds, including the ability to fly, and obviously feathers. Others include tiktaalik, which is a transitional form between fish and amphibians.
- Modern animals, which are still in the process of evolving between forms. For example, see the following PBS mini-documentary on the evolution of Californian salamanders: Evolution in Action. While this may not be evolution between species (such as the aforementioned transitional fossils), it’s interesting to note that when humans first started to domesticate wolves, dogs such as the chihuahua didn’t exist. Wolves were bred to function differently, and as they bred they created what we know as dogs. However, it’s entirely true that a dog is still a dog, and that’s all it will ever be since that’s not how evolution works. In fact, evolution works in the way that animals will be able to breed and at least look moderately similar until they transition to another type of animal. Given that the domestic dog hasn’t been given long enough (thousands of years as opposed to the normal millions), they’ve not had long enough to become an entirely different order of animal. But they are going there through small changes.
For the third, the medium is natural selection, which states that animals with mutations that are harmful will likely be taken out of the gene pool, therefore not spreading their features to the next generation. We can see this in the breeding of hot peppers.
In hot peppers, they were likely first very toxic or had an amplifying heat in respect to their natural predators’ tastes. Therefore, the less hot or toxic ones were more likely to be eaten, while the hottest and most toxic were able to survive and reproduced to create ever hotter or more toxic peppers.
That’s natural selection in action and can be observed in your home garden over very few generations.
The overall point of this really long blog that needs to come to an end now is that evolution with natural selection happens and has more evidence than groups like the discovery institute want you to know of. All dissents from “Darwinism” are about personal religious convictions, although there are scientists in evolutionary biology who are Christians — such as Ken Miller. There is no evidence for intelligent design, at all. I’ve not seen a piece from independent sources or from the very people who promote this nonsense. Therefore it does not qualify as science.
There is no controversy to teach.
Aloha again,
I can correctly state (as from evolutionists themselves)
that the whole reason the theory of evolution was INVENTED is because they did not like the fact that everyone will have to give an account of their lives to God!(whether you believe it or not)……
Evolution is scientifically impossible! It could never happen, no matter how many million, billion or even trillion years you claim, it just will NOT happen! There is NO real scientific proof or evedince that has not /can not be completely proven false! (Remember Lucy?)
Examine the issue of Information.
How did something get the idea to “evolve” into something else? Where did the blueprint come from?
If you were to take all the materials needed to build a house, and put them in a vacant lot, how long would it take for the house to “evolve” by itself??? Even though you put all of the needed materials in the lot, nothing will happen, but the building materials would rot away, because the natural order of things is to go from order to disorder! NOT disorder to order, as evolution would require. How about the old cars on the road, they are decaying with time, not improving, unless someone puts time & work in to restoring them….Or how about the faces on Mt. Rushmore? How long did it take for them to “evolve” by themselves????? Sound totally stupid? Of course it does, and so does the notion that non-life “evolved” into life, then up to higher life forms!
Again, evolution was Invented because some did not like the fact that they will give an account of their lives to God, and they wanted to be free to “practice their own sexual mores” (established customs) No matter what you say, or how loud you shout, or who you put down, evolution STILL is SCIENCE FICTION!!! Evolution is the religion of secular humanists, and it takes WAY more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in
In The Beginning, God Created the Heavens and Earth!!!
And That IS the Most Scientific statment about the Beginnings of everything!!!!
Even Darwin knows that now!!!
And you are right, there really is NO controversy! Evolution IS a Fairy Tale!!!!!!
Fairy tales are observed in labs, Lucy isn’t fake, evolution isn’t like blueprints to a house, Mt. Rushmore, or anything non-living, no one got the idea to evolve, there are creationist evolutionary biology scientists, secular humanism isn’t religion, etc. etc. etc.
Carry on the la la la la la I CAN’T HEAR YOU nonsense et. al.
Hi Dale,
It’s clear from your post that you are a complete and utter idiot. The Theory of Evolution was not “invented they did not like the fact that everyone will have to give an account of their lives to God!” (ironic considering Darwin’s deism), but it was coined to explain the development of species as they appear now, and how they will continue to develop until all life ends.
“Evolution is scientifically impossible! It could never happen, no matter how many million, billion or even trillion years you claim, it just will NOT happen!”
You creationists love making up figures for your arguments. Did you know there is a 1/1,000,000,000,000 chance of made-up figures having any success in an argument? (The figure in my sentence is pure sarcasm, if you could not tell.)
“There is NO real scientific proof or evedince that has not /can not be completely proven false!”
Fossils. I’ll accept your apology.
“How did something get the idea to “evolve” into something else? Where did the blueprint come from?”
There are no blueprints in evolution. There is no goal.
“If you were to take all the materials needed to build a house, and put them in a vacant lot, how long would it take for the house to “evolve” by itself???”
A house is not a life form. Wood, a component, was previously a portion of a tree (a form of life), but has been extracted from the corpse (a.k.a. DEAD remains) of a tree, and thus it cannot develop. Your metaphor (and the rest of them) is faulty beyond any comprehensible mean.
“Sound totally stupid? Of course it does, and so does the notion that non-life “evolved” into life, then up to higher life forms!”
Yes, it does sound stupid, because it is; no logically thinking person thinks this of evolution. Also, evolution does not speak of abiogenesis (origin of life). That is up to you to look up.
“No matter what you say, or how loud you shout, or who you put down, evolution STILL is SCIENCE FICTION!!!”
More denial. Argh, you simply won’t accept any evidence we’ll give you, will you? Look, us scientists are not lying to you when we speak of evolution. Creationists like you, however, are too close-minded to allow science to pass the confines of cranial container where your brain rests.
“Evolution is the religion of secular humanists, and it takes WAY more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in”
I’ve heard this argument so many times that I’ve lost count of its use. To be honest, this is a wholly stupid rhetoric: there is no possible way to hold theological faith in any part of science, where the supernatural is omitted. Also, evolution, being a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, is not a religion of “secular humanists.”
“In The Beginning, God Created the Heavens and Earth!!!”
I’m sorry, I have Harry Potter as my source of bad fiction.
“And That IS the Most Scientific statment about the Beginnings of everything!!!!”
And Saudi Arabia has the best women’s rights in the world!
In the end, you’re just another creationist pin-head who uses simple denial of evidence as a way of propelling your arguments. Unfortunately, it has no use in the science field, and you fail for even attempting to thrust yourself in the field while using arguments that would make John Oliver himself vomit into a cup of tea.
It amazes me: Thousands upon thousands of fossils have been discovered. One single fossil out of place (Rabbits in the pre-Cambrian, for example) would completely destroy the Theory of Evolution. All of the thousands upon thousands fossils discovered have fitted into the Theory of Evolution – And Creationists put this down to chance.
Now that takes some faith.
Hello Danny and all you other foolish evolutionists,
You are free to believe all the evolutionary lies & myths you want to! You are “just another evolutionist pin-head who uses simple denial of evidence as a way of propelling your arguments!!! Shout as loud as you want to, you know your “evedince” is VERY weak!!
“There are no blueprints in evolution. There is no goal.”
If you believe that line, as complex and wonderfully designed as everything in the body & the world is,
then it is You that believes in a science fiction fairy tale!!!
I know for a fact that time & REAL science will prove evolution to be the science fiction myths that they are!!!
The real reason you & others like you is that for whatever reason you hate God….That’s OK, that is YOUR choice.
Even you will see the truth someday, that evolution is science fiction!!! As soon as you take off your anti-God blinders, and look past your dogma of evolution!!
Even Darwin knew his theory was full of holes!
Can you honestly examine the complexity of a single cell, or a single strand of DNA, as complex as they are, and still think they are the products of a “random, meaningless chance????? If you can honestly come to that conclusion,
then YOU, my friend are the “complete & utter idiot!!!!
How can you explain away the need for communication and information??? In the so called “evolutionary process” how does something decide it needs to change into something else?? Or for something to improve itself, there needs to be some kind of information exchanged, some thing has to know it needs something…..Under the system you people swear up & down is “science”, with no way to communicate needs to something else, the thing would just die, and that would be the end of that plant or animal!!!
You must know that there needs to be some kind of
communication and co-ordination on any building project, to ensure that the building is built in the proper order.
The roof can’t be built before the foundations and support walls are designed and in place!!!! (That takes INTELLIGENT DESIGN, my friend)
And you evolutionists want us to think your
“no blueprints, no goal” theory(???) is scientific??? LMAO!
>>>Just who is the foolish idiot now????
Yes, evolution really IS a fairy tale!!!!!!!!! HAHAHA!
You, sir, are a complete and utter failure. Until you have the resources to refute the evidence given for evolution, you will get no valid response from me: merely laughter.
That is correct, I laugh at you. That’s all I can do as you’re so dead set in your silly beliefs that nothing else matters. But I’m sure Danny will be here in a moment to have some fun…
Hey Dale,
There’s a useful invention you might benefit from which is called the “Enter” or “Return” key. I suggest you use it more often. Also, I suggest you make use of spellcheck software, as majority of your rambling is unintelligible at first guise.
Proceeding to your post…
‘You are free to believe all the evolutionary lies & myths you want to! You are “just another evolutionist pin-head who uses simple denial of evidence as a way of propelling your arguments!!! Shout as loud as you want to, you know your “evedince” is VERY weak!!’
I love it. Just as soon as an opponent finishes reading my argument, they proceeded to attack me, and neglect to do actual refutations of my presented argument. But hey, whatever is the easier escape route is the better one, right?
‘“There are no blueprints in evolution. There is no goal.”
If you believe that line, as complex and wonderfully designed as everything in the body & the world is,
then it is You that believes in a science fiction fairy tale!!!’
Would you care to address how this would qualify my “belief” as one in a fairy tell? I have the feeling that if I had said the opposite, you would have replied with the very same (or at least similar) statement.
As for your “complex and wonderfully designed” anecdote, this is a teleological argument (Argument from Design). It is nice to assume that some sky daddy simply waved his wand to produce us all, but this is simply a denial of the natural world. I’m perfectly fine with your believing in creationism, just as long as you don’t deny the fact that everything is a derivative of the natural world.
“I know for a fact that time & REAL science will prove evolution to be the science fiction myths that they are!!!”
Okay, I’ll set this challenge up for you; I want you to:
* Propose a new hypothesis alternative to the Theory of Evolution and hypotheses of abiogenesis, which would explain the origin and development of all life.
* Substantiate your hypothesis with unfalsifiable, verifiable data.
* Submit your report/paper to an academic journal as a way of having your hypothesis publicly displayed.
Unfortunately, there has been no creationist (or intelligent design proponent) that has have attempted to take this challenge and those similar to it, or if they have, they have failed due to their failure in the eyes of science.
“The real reason you & others like you is that for whatever reason you hate God….That’s OK, that is YOUR choice.”
Thanks for the straw man argument. Now, here’s a little interesting bit of information: if God or a creator of similar proportions did exist (or VERIFIABLE evidence was proposed to support their existence), I would definitely not hate him. However, as there is no evidence, I have no belief.
“Even you will see the truth someday, that evolution is science fiction!!!”
Oye, you creationists have so many mantras!
“Even Darwin knew his theory was full of holes!”
Argumentum ad authoritam. Try again.
The majority of your post is (quite simply put) a grammatical rape of the English language, and a terrible misunderstanding of science. I suggest you go to a local library and read up about the information you claim is faulty.
“The roof can’t be built before the foundations and support walls are designed and in place!!!!”
That’s a house. We’re talking about evolution.
“>>>Just who is the foolish idiot now????”
You still are.
I hope Copache won’t mind, but this is a fabulous blog on the errors of arguments against Evolution which I recommend to Dale.
http://mattcbr.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/repeated-ignorant-creationistid-arguments-a-solution/
On a slightly seperate issue, I do feel sorry for God if he/she really does exist -Imagine having to spend eternity with sycophantic Creationists!